E4: IHAKA

TRANSCRIPT:

[Webster:] Well, thank you very much for speaking with us, man.
[Ihaka:] It's been very enjoyable, actually, lots of great questions, actually, I had never been asked.
[Webster:] Yeah!
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] Yeah, yeah, yeah! No, it's been fun, it's been fun.
[Webster:] Thank you so much for coming and for your time and...
[Ihaka:] My pleasure!
[Webster:] We can't wait to hear more of you in the concerts!
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] Yeah. Thursday. I don't know, will this be out by Thursday?
[Webster:] No...
[laughing]
[Webster:] It's a podcast without time and place...
[laughing]
[Evy:] We're in this... world
[Webster:] It was great, guys! See you next time.
[Ihaka:] Yeah, see you next time!

[Evy:] Hello, hello, and welcome to Word Up Podcast. I'm Evy.
[Webster:] And I'm Webster.
[Evy:] And today we are with Ihaka.
[Ihaka:] Hello, kia ora, I'm Ihaka, I'm from New Zealand. I'm a freelance musician. I'm a singer, song writer, producer and multi-instrumentalist and I've been living in Amsterdam, in the Netherlands, for three and a half years now. And I came on a one-way ticket all the way to Europe. Sold everything, and... and I've been just trying to build myself up as a freelance artist ever since. That's the long story short. [laughing]
[Webster:] That's a great story. That's crazy. So, you sold everything and then came to Amsterdam. What, sort of, speared that decision?
[Ihaka:] Yeah, um. A couple of things. Um, my step-grandfather, he's Dutch. So, I've always had... I grew up with, like, oliebollen at New Year's, and stuff like that. We didn't really speak Dutch, but I always had a fascination for the country. And the second thing was, we had an earthquake in my home city, in Christchurch...
[Webster:] No way!
[Ihaka:] Yeah, that was really heavy, and I felt after that that there wasn't much future for me at that time. Just as a young person, trying to find himself in this city that was just completely broken. So, after studying for a bit, I thought, yeah, I'm just going to pursue that music dream, instead of trying to, you know, keep working through that earthquake kind of thing. I don't know, it brought a lot of people down.
[Webster:] Yeah, I can imagine!
[Ihaka:] So, I wanted to get away from that, yeah.
[Webster:] Sounds quite traumatic. Um, were you doing music at that time, or...?
[Ihaka:] Yeah...
[Webster:] Like quite heavily, or...
[Ihaka:] Yeah, I was... Music wasn't my main focus back then. I'd always played music, I mean, I was playing professionally since I was 15, but that was classical, a lot of classical music and a lot of theatre stuff as well. And after that... And a lot of reggae, as well. Reggae is quite big in New Zealand. And so, I was playing a bit, but that wasn't the main focus. Yeah. There's just not that much space to be a full-time musician in New Zealand if you're into different genres.
[Webster:] Right.
[Ihaka:] Yeah.
[Webster:] Got it.
[Evy:] And, I'm just wondering, like, how was, what was your first impression when you arrived in Amsterdam?
[Ihaka:] When I arrived in Amsterdam my first impression was lots of weed.
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] Yeah, really, you know, like walking through the central city you don't expect, I don't know... most big cities in the world you don't expect just to smell weed everywhere, but...
[Evy:] Have you been to Barcelona?
[Ihaka:] Barcelona, no, but I've heard about it, yeah. I've heard about it.
[Evy:] And then the second impression? Besides weed?
[Ihaka:] The second impression was lots of water.
[Evy:] Yeah.
[Ihaka:] All the canals, and... But I think the thing that sticks out to me the most is the people. It's the Dutch people and how direct they are and how straight to the point they are. And that's actually quite refreshing for me, I don't know. I feel like, as an English speaker, or in English countries, there's this kind of... we've got this wall, right?
[Webster:] Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally!
[Ihaka:] Back me up on that Webster!
[Webster:] Yeah, totally, I was going to say, coming from London, people are super polite.
[Ihaka:] Yeah, right? Like too polite.
[Webster:] They could hate you in your face, but they'll be the nicest person to your face, at the same time, and, you know. It's refreshing to have Dutch people who will, like, tell you as it is.
[Ihaka:] Yeah, if they don't like you, they'll tell you.
[Webster:] Yeah!
[Ihaka:] And that's that.
[laughing]
[Webster:] Yeah, honesty, it's brilliant.
[Ihaka:] It's good stuff.
[Evy:] And do you think ... do you feel like you're drawing your inspiration from your New Zealand part or your experiences or...
[Ihaka:] Yeah, in the start, I definitely always have ... the cultural background of the Maori language and my name is Ihaka, as well - and that is my Maori name, that my mother called me in the house. So, I'm definitely... I definitely always take inspiration from that folk music from New Zealand, and that culture, but lately I've been getting more into urban feeling, because in Europe it's just urban. It's really built up, and the inspiration that I get from New Zealand is more to do with the nature, so I had to shift my focus and my perspective about that, since I've been here, yeah.
[Evy:] And especially in the Netherlands, where everything is handmade...
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] Yeah, yeah, it's all handmade. You don't even get a forest without a walkway through it, you know?
[laughing]
[Evy:] And Vondelpark... we call it a park, even though it's not.
[Ihaka:] It's a park, it's fine.
[Evy:] Three trees.
[Webster:] For our audience who haven't - maybe haven't - heard your music, how would you describe it?
[Ihaka:] That's a tough question.
[Webster:] Yeah.
[Ihaka:] Because, as a freelancer, I'm involved in way to many projects to get started about here. Um, my own music would be a... it is a mixture of soul and jazz and electronics.
[Webster:] Right.
[Ihaka:] But that's a bit hard to look up, because I'm releasing this year. I've been working for the last three years on my own band, Heavy Faces. Um, yeah, and that's a kind of... think about a mix between... do you know Subtract? Or Sampha?
[Webster:] Yeah, yeah, yeah...
[Ihaka:] Sampha, a mix between Sampha and Jamiroquai, and, you know, maybe Matt Corby. Quarvocals.
[Webster:] Sounds delicious!
[Ihaka:] Something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a good time. I mean, I'm involved in everything from reggae, to punk, to drum 'n' bass, to DJ X, with just deep house and stuff. I try and keep that as broad as possible, otherwise I would go crazy.
[Webster:] Yeah, I can imagine.
[Ihaka:] ...if I had to work on one thing all the time. Yeah.
[Evy:] Of course. Have you been to New Zealand ever since you came back here?
[Ihaka:] No, I've been on the... I've just... been going. There's no... I haven't been back. Every year I try and go back for a tour, because I've got a lot of friends in New Zealand that tour around and play music. But it just doesn't... I mean. The first year I was in Geneva for New Year's, playing at a five-star hotel that... I mean... our room was like 15... fucking... 15.000 per night or something like that... yeah...
[Webster:] Whaaat? That's crazy
[Ihaka:] It was ridiculous. I mean, we got asked in the morning, like, how do you want your omelette? Do you want it well done or medium rare? Like, when have you ever been asked that?
[Webster:] That's crazy!
[Ihaka:] You were drinking sparkling water before you came out here?
[laughing]
[Webster:] I'll have my omelette cooked, thank you very much.
[Ihaka:] Yeah, right? Like, flipped.
[Webster:] Yeah!
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] And every year after that, I've just been touring and I try and make the space for that, but... maybe this year.
[Evy:] You never know.
[Ihaka:] I would love to go back, definitely. That's definitely in the priority list.
[Evy:] Yeah. And is your band also from New Zealand?
[Ihaka:] My own band? My own band is a bit international. I've got my main boy - shout out Noah Ralph - he's my main boy on drums, we play... we've got the two bands together. And he's from Colorado. He's actually British, but was brought up in Colorado. And the rest of the band, the other three guys, they're Dutch. So, it's an international kind of group, and in the beginning, we spoke English, but now we speak Dutch, just because me and Noah learned Dutch.
[Webster:] Well done!
[Ihaka:] Yeah, thank you!
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] Yeah.
[Webster:] Did you find that switch easy, from speaking English and then going to Dutch? For me, for example, I'm not even close yet to picking up the local language.
[Ihaka:] Yeah, it's funny, Dutch is such a funny language, cause you think, again, from the English perspective, you always think that there's more ways to say stuff, we've always got like ten ways to say something, but the Dutch really only have like... if you want to say something, there's like that one way to say it.
[Webster:] Right.
[Ihaka:] And I think that was the most confusing, so.... I ... after a while, I kind of got surprised by how simple it is, actually. That was a surprise. But it was also, I had to learn quite quickly, because I got set up in Zwolle, not exactly in Amsterdam, and the level of English there just isn't that high. So, I kind of just got stuck... In my... in one of my first rehearsals - one of my first big gigs in the Netherlands was the final of the Clash of the Cover Bands, that's quite a big event that's over the whole Benelux - and I got flown in the day before to play with the band in the Klokgebouw in Eindhoven, it was 50.000 people, it was just massive. Fireworks and shit. Pyrotechnics and shit.
[laughing]
[Webster:] Sounds dope!
[Ihaka:] And I just kind of... had the rehearsal the day before. Everyone speaking Dutch, and I was like, sitting there like, whoa....
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] Like, I don't understand. And then someone said something, and everyone looked at me and I was like "Could you say that in English, please?"
[Webster:] It's embarrassing, isn't it?
[Ihaka:] Very embarrassing, yeah, yeah.
[Webster:] But that's cool. How have you found navigating the music industry here, then? So, you've got some success, obviously you're doing really, really well. But for people starting out, in, let's say entertainment, for example, in general, how, what sort of advice would you have for them?
[Ihaka:] Yeah, that's a really good question. The entertainment industry can be a really hard thing to navigate. Just because you've got a lot of people just doing their thing and you've got to stay subjective - you can't ever become objective about that, I think, even if you've got, you know, a really high level of success, you've still got to stay open for ideas and that means that there's just, kind of, this continuous melting pot of influences. Depends what you want to do in the entertainment industry.
[Webster:] Right.
[Ihaka:] Like, I've learned that to support the creative side of what I do - so, writing songs and throwing music out there - I've also got to support that somehow. And that's by being a session musician, for me, like sort of ranging and, just, kind of, like, doing stuff for other people.
[Webster:] Yeah.
[Ihaka:] And that's... I think that's the backbone of anyone that wants to get in the entertainment industry - is diversify your projects, especially in the beginning, because you never know which project needs to get tweaked in one way and if you stay closed to that, then you won't grow.
[Webster:] Right.
[Ihaka:] And even if I translate that to - let's take it away from music, like, let's put that into the context, like, you want to be in event organization - you need a roster of events that you're working at, otherwise you'll have that one festival for that... you know... the one year, and then that's that.
[Webster:] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[Ihaka:] And it's really hard to find your own traction, if you're not diversifying, so, maybe you're doing one... you know, you got a couple of festivals, but maybe you've also got a bar, where you're booking music, and maybe there's, you know, maybe a longer project that you're working on - that would be my biggest tip, don't get stuck in tunnel vision. Yeah.
[Webster:] I like it. I wish I learned that when I first came here.
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] I should have learned that quicker, as well.
[Webster:] Yeah, it's hard, because, like, teachers, like, sort of, you know, when you're in school, maybe you're learning your craft in that way and you're learning just about the craft, there's not much education on how you're going to support yourself in that craft. I mean, you kind of get sort of peripheral advice on, "Oh, you can make money doing this and doing that sort of stuff". But, for me, like, the biggest growing point was, maybe I should do other stuff as well, maybe I don't have to stick to filmmaking to survive. Because, at the end of the day, that's the thing that I love to do. And sometimes doing what you love to do for money is not a wise choice.
[Ihaka:] That can really taint your vision, yeah.
[Webster:] ...it kills your creativity as well, sometimes, so, yeah, I think there's definitely something to be said for diversifying.
[Ihaka:] Yeah, I find also a lot of, you know, there's a lot of bands out there, especially in Europe, like, there's just a really high supply, and there's also a really high demand for live music and music in general and the... it's hard to get past that, you know? And it's hard to get past that education step especially... I come across people that have been working not so long in the entertainment industry and I noticed that they kind of feel that it's not going anywhere or something, you know? And I think it's important to just kind of focus on getting... I mean, if your business isn't, like, going forward or you don't see any growth, then don't try and make excuses like, "Aww" - I hear a lot from musicians that have just come out of conservatory, they're like - "Aww, the audience, you know, the audience doesn't understand what we're doing", and this kind of... I see that more like a kind of excuse, these days. Yeah.
[Evy:] On that note, what is your pick me up, like, if you feel like your motivation is fleeting, how do you inspire yourself?
[Ihaka:] Writing. Yeah, doesn't matter what. Yeah, I wish I could do visual art. But I suck at it.
[laughing]
[Evy:] It's a skill, you can learn it!
[Ihaka:] It's an amazing skill, yeah, I wish I could do that.
[Evy:] You can learn, it's practice makes perfect!
[Ihaka:] Yeah, definitely, I mean I do my own stuff sometimes, but I'm always like, naah... like...
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] Forget it!
[Webster:] Yeah, you look at it and it's like ... eeeh...
[Ihaka:] Yeah.
[Webster:] Keep this one to myself, you know?
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] Nah, to get the inspiration back, I enjoy either writing by myself, in my own space, like trying to make that home studio environment your own kind of vibe, and making something new that you haven't made before, or going out and watching live bands that I haven't seen before. And meeting new people at events.
[Evy:] So, also personally, as a human being, not just as a musician?
[Ihaka:] Yeah, that's just as a human being, like most of the things that I write... that would never get played for an audience, but that's important, I think...
[Evy:] I like that, musicians are also humans!
[Ihaka:] Yeah, yeah!
[Webster:] Who knew?
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] You can forget that sometimes, yeah.
[Webster:] What are some of the places in Amsterdam that people can go to, to discover new music? Because I know you've got quite an eclectic taste of music.
[Ihaka:] Yeah.
[Webster:] I'm quite new to the city and I don't know where to go.
[Ihaka:] Yeah, it's... it can be... Amsterdam's a funny one, because you've got a lot of places... yeah, like, places are small here. So, they often don't have that massive PR... you know there's some clubs in London that just have a massive PR department. You know? And you can see that everywhere in London, for those massive clubs, like O2 or something, you know? Here, there's the Sugar Factory - until very recently, there's such a disappointment, because Sugar Factory was such a lovely place to play, but that's gone. So, I'd say Melkweg, that's... and then, not the stock standard concerts, but like, that sometimes there's some killer stuff upstairs in the Melkweg.
[Webster:] Oh cool, nice!
[Ihaka:] Also, like, you're pretty much guaranteed that if you see a name there that you don't know, then check it out a little bit, like, they've got a great programming there. Cinetol for like up and coming bands. I'm definitely more into live music, so I wouldn't really know what to... like for DJs or, like, the electronic DJ scene. I don't really know, but Sinatole is a great place to see live music and I'd say the best party in Amsterdam - I'm a bit biased cause I've played there - and I know like everyone that's in the house band. Wicked jazz sounds, that was in Sugar Factory, and is now in Melkweg, that's every Sunday night from like 11 to 5. The people that come there are, like, alternatives that have just finished work on a Sunday, you know? It's just DJs and live musicians playing, like, old funk soul tracks, and that's every week. So, like, that's my favourite party in Amsterdam.
[Webster:] Okay, cool.
[Ihaka:] It's a guaranteed good time.
[Webster:] Cool. I'll check those out.
[Evy:] Cool. And we always ask this for people who come to our podcast, what is the strangest thing that happened to you on stage?
[Ihaka:] Wow. Wow. Good question. Damn. What... there's been some strange... people do strange stuff.
[Evy:] I know, right?
[Ihaka:] People are weird.
[Evy:] Tell us all!
[Ihaka:] Yeah, I was playing at Amsterdam Dance Event , yeah, this typical rock 'n' roll.. I was playing at Amsterdam Dance Event with Knars, two years ago, we were playing in the Pacific Park - Pacific Park, also a great place to see, like, random stuff, but I think that they're changing the focus there, but... - anyway, I was at Pacific Park, playing the Amsterdam Dance Event, great, it was packed, 18 euro chicks on the Coke...
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] ...great, love it. And I had these two, like, girls, in front of me... and for some reason I just wanted them to start making out... so I was, like - it's like a punk band, as well, so I was like, [in a punky voice] "Yeaaah, go make out with each other!" And they fucking did it! And they kept doing it for the whole song. That was strange.
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] That was really strange, because what would you do if I told you to... You know what I mean?
[Webster:] Put your hair of fire! Yeah...
[Ihaka:] Yeah, put your hair of fire! Yeah, whaaat?
[Webster:] Such a trip.
[Ihaka:] Or, there's this city in the Netherlands called Appeldoorn. I don't know if you...
[Evy:] Yeah.
[Ihaka:] Yeah? It's a crazy place. People that come to concerts there, in my experience - I've played there quite a lot - in my experience they're just a little bit offbeat.
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] And, like, this one time I was playing some piano and the owner of the bar came up to me - or, like, one of the bar workers came up to me with, like, a tray of shots, and he stood, like, right in front of the audience, in the middle of the song, and was like, "Take a shot!" You know what I mean?
[Evy:] What?
[Ihaka:] And I'm playing piano, trying to sing, trying to, like, connect with the audience, I'm looking around him, like, "Yo, bro, like, just playing a song at the moment, okay?"
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] And he was like, "No, you have to take a shot", so, I had to, like, stop the song, like tell people, "I'm sorry, there's only enough shots for me", and, like, took a shot and then, I don't know, that was really strange, cause, like...
[Webster:] That's bizarre.
[Ihaka:] Yeah, right?
[Webster:] You're, like, there to perform...
[Ihaka:] Yeah, I'm there to perform, like, we can do a shot afterwards, but...
[Webster:] Yeah.
[Evy:] Well, they're trying to be inclusive, right?
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] I kind of find it weird if your concert just gets stopped by one person who has like an opinion at that moment...
[Webster:] Yeah. It's like, "Take a shot!" I mean, I might...
[Ihaka:] There's just so many... I mean there's strange stuff that happens. Last couple of weeks ago, we were playing in Willem II, in Den Bosch, at a festival, and yeah, it's a great location, but the stage is low enough that you can, like, stand on the stage. So, at one point, we got... like, there were just people standing in front of the band on the stage, trying to crowd surf, but it was the same people that were trying to crowd surf all the time, and the rest of the audience was just kind of like, kind of getting tired of these people that were crowd surfing...
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] And at one point, I just kind of got pissed off, I was like "Get the fuck off my stage!" and, like, kicked them in the back.
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] Kicked them in the back, and he like jumped off, but no one caught him, and I just saw him like... [claps] Boom! Like...
[Evy:] Ohhh...
[Webster:] Oh, shit.
[Ihaka:] On his butt, like... I saw him walking off like "Oh, my back!"
[Evy, Webster:] Oh no!
[laughing]
[Webster:] Were the audience happy about this?
[Ihaka:] Yeah.
[Webster:] Ok, good!
[Ihaka:] Yeah, a lot of people afterwards were like "Yeah, I was getting so annoyed with the people that were on the stage, so, like, good job for kicking him in the back". I was like, "Ok..."
[laughing]
[Webster:] Looking out for the crowd, that's cool man.
[Ihaka:] Yeah.
[Webster:] I mean, those are crazy stories.
[Evy:] Well... And like I said, we'll have to do a lot of PSA’s...
[Webster:] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[laughing]
[Webster:] Totally different from, like, the spoken word crazy stories.
[Evy:] Yeah!
[laughing]
[Webster:] "So, yeah, I dropped my paper, forgot my line"...
[Ihaka:] Yeah, this one time I... there's this soul singer in the Netherlands, Humphrey Campbell, he's a great singer, amazing, and he represented the Netherlands at Eurovision a couple of times...
[Webster:] Cool.
[Ihaka:] Just all around, like, legend in the Dutch music scene. And this one time I was MC-ing an orchestra gig that he was a guest artist at, and literally everybody - I mean it was, like, in the main concert venue in Zwolle, with like four rows of two thousand people - and I was the MC for that event and I just, I introduced him wrong, and I was literally the only person that didn't know who he was, right? Like...
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] So, they came out to me at the half time, they were like, "You know you got Humphrey's name wrong..." I'm like... [gasping, hand to mouth] "Oh my god!"
[laughing]
[Webster:] Oh, shit!
[Ihaka:] I think that's the worst... mess-up I've had.
[Webster:] Yeah, that's pretty bad, especially if he's like famous...
[Ihaka:] He's famous, yeah, it was, it was kind of...
[Evy:] But was he upset?
[Ihaka:] No, he thought it was funny I guess, yeah. I told him I'm sorry, but he was like, "Yeah, whatever, everyone knows my name anyway", yeah.
[laughing]
[Evy:] So, speaking of celebrities, did you have like a starstruck moment at some time, because you've been playing around quite a lot?
[Ihaka:] Yeah, I've had a couple of starstruck moments... Starstruck? I don't know. I was in France last year and Pussy Riot was playing on the same stage, and that was funny, cause Pussy Riot is such a whack band, they're so crazy...
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] They just go all the way!
[Webster:] Right.
[Ihaka:] I really like that. But, I'm just not the biggest fan of the music, like, I like... It's more... It's like, Die Antwoord, like, I really like their presence and what they represent, and some tracks are cool, but...
[Webster:] But the music...
[Ihaka:] Yeah. I think the most starstruck moment that I had was playing a duet... I was at the Montreux Jazz Festival - and this was still when I was traveling around Europe - it was Montreux Jazz Festival, I was just by myself, and they've got this jam session underneath one of the concert venues in Montreux, it's like the Montreux jazz club, and that opens up at 11 o'clock at night, after all the outside concerts are done. And that's, like, where all the musicians and artists and visual artists and YouTube influencers, they all come to that one jam session... and I remember playing a duet with Jacob Collier - do you know...? Jacob Collier, he's still niche, but he's quite big in the musician scene, like he's played with Snarky Puppy and he's played his own shows in large venues across Europe and America, and he's also an education influencer, someone that is just outstanding at music. And playing a duet with him... we played Blackbird from... [singing]
"Blackbird singing in the dead of night... take those broken wings and learn to fly..." Played that, and Quincy Jones and Herbie Hancock were in the audience.
[Evy:] Wow!
[Ihaka:] And it just had a really great... at that point I wasn't really focused on, you know, the career, I was just travelling. And managed to just have a really... I don't know, for me it was just a really heartfelt moment, that I was with Jacob Collier and we were making music. And then kind of noticing that there were so many people around him that really wanted his attention and being able to, just, kind of, see through that and kind of look for each other in the music... that was, that's a really special moment.
[Evy:] Right. Is that how you see your future also, or do you have basic goals for yourself, or?
[Ihaka:] Yeah, I don't know, I'm kind of caught with the future question, cause, you know, the more sustainable route is to... you know, production and session music and arranging. But there's also the part of me that really wants to put my own music out there, so... I find that really hard to answer. I would like it if people left me alone, if I ever got some kind of fame, some kind of real fame, it would be nice to still be able to operate as a normal person, because seeing people like...
[Evy:] Like Bjork.
[Ihaka:] Yeah, right? [laughing] Yeah, but she's anonymous, so... I wouldn't recognize Bjork, I wouldn't recognize her if she was walking down the street. I always see her with a costume.
[Evy:] Well, she doesn't look very... yeah, intense.
[Ihaka:] Yeah, yeah.
[Evy:] I met her twice, so, like... and it's never been massive, like... "Oh, ok, cool".
[Ihaka:] Yeah, that would be nice. Otherwise I think you might, you know... If it was someone like Justin Bieber, you know, like...Who the fuck is that, like, no one ... he doesn't exist? Right? I just. It seems like so much unnecessary pressure.
[Webster:] Yeah, you don't like the idea, I guess, of my life being in the public.
[Ihaka:] Yeah.
[Webster:] Which is strange, as a performer, I imagine, because you spend quite a lot of your time in public, but you have to maintain a bit of you know, personal integrity...a little bit.
[Ihaka:] Sure, yeah. And it's that moment that people overstep those personal boundaries, that's when it gets dirty, you know?
[Webster:] Yeah.
[Ihaka:] Yeah, yeah.
[Webster:] I can imagine.
[Evy:] So, going back to personal...
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] Personal, let's make it personal, let's get deep.
[Evy:] Was it easy for you to make friends here and...
[Ihaka:] Um, in Amsterdam, no. I found, in the beginning, but that's also got to do with... I was just kind of like this traveller, I was dirty.
[laughing]
[Evy:] So, shower!
[Ihaka:] Yeah, right? Like. No, literally, like asking people... I mean, in the beginning, I had no plan and very little self-respect, I think. And, you know, just like asking people if I can stay at their place... and... But in Zwolle I found a really amazing community and that's where I've been ever since. Like, as soon as I went to that first jam session in Zwolle... and then... boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, it all happened in that one night pretty much. Yeah, like the producer that I work with, with two projects now, Knars - we're playing in Paradiso on Thursday - and Noah, my drummer, he was drumming that session, met a whole bunch of poets, did some spoken word stuff, at Windesheim Hogeschool, like, the university in Zwolle. So that happened really fast, and I was like, wow. In Zwolle. So that was... That was really easy, I found the people to be amazingly warm and inviting.
[Evy:] And I'm also wondering how much of where you are right now is because of your persistence and constant attempt to do what you're doing, and how much of it is luck?
[Ihaka:] Hm. Um.... Certain milestones... have something to do with luck. Like, just being in the... at the right party at the right moment, like, "Yo, man, what's going on, yeah, I'm drunk", "Yeah... Yeah me too", "Hey you wanna play on my session on Thursday?", "Yeah!", "Like, we're playing a really big stage", "Wow that sounds great" and then, like, secretly, you're like "YES!"
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] Like, "What a break". Yeah, but I think persistence definitely... Like, you've got to build that luck, you've got to make your own luck, I think. Um, I'm also quite a slow person in terms of, like, creating something, I like to take a while, you know.
[Evy:] Yeah.
[Ihaka:] Rethink it.
[Evy:] Right.
[Ihaka:] Maybe if something's not really working for you, if you don't feel it so much, then go back and kind of revise it. So, in that respect I think persistence is key, cause in that time you can send out more e-mails and get more responses and if you kind of jump the gun a little bit, then you won't get that luck, that little element of magic that you can't define, you know? And that... I've found in my own experience that... that's least there if it seems rushed, if you seem rushed as a person, or if you seem, you know, if your project seems rushed, if your music seems rushed, it ... people want to be relaxed and comfortable with... as a persona, as well, as an... as a performer and an artist... it's important for me that people kind of feel comfortable to share opinions and be open, so in that way it's more like persistence, like, just making friends and trusting that something will come out of it. Yeah.
[Webster:] And you've got to allow for a certain degree of, you know, serendipity, when you're creating, right? Cause...
[Ihaka:] Yeah, right? I mean if you cancel that out, then...
[Webster:] Yeah!
[Ihaka:] What are you doing?
[Webster:] Exactly!
[laughing]
[Webster:]... it's kind of like, oh man, like you're in a constant state of "Am I going to do this, is this going to work out", and if you don't have any hope or believe in any sort of light, then it's kind of, like, "Eh, might as well just throw out the towel", like... because, you know... It's all based on luck and who you know and who you bump into and... all that sort of stuff.
[Ihaka:] Yeah, definitely. And the question of quality also comes in, but I find, you know, cause that's so subjective, you can't always use that as a measuring stick. Like, I've seen bands that are just so good that have no following...
[Webster:] Yeah.
[Ihaka:] Because they don't put their work into it. And, also, vice versa. Like, some acts have immense quality from the beginning and then they just kind of... boom, get picked up!
[Webster:] Yeah.
[Ihaka:] There's a band, Arp Freaque, I don't know if... I don't think it's... Yeah, it's from Amsterdam. And they play, like, throwback disco with quite a few Surinamese musicians and Anatolian musicians, and the bassist I found her - shit, I mean she's 18, she was living in Zwolle, and I found that the bassist, like three years ago, whoa, "Marilonah you have so much talent!" And, like, three months after that, Arp Freaque found her, played all across Europe, and now she's like 19, she's had, like, a feature in De Bassist magazine Holland, and she's going milestone to milestone. I really like to see that.
[Webster:] Yeah, that's cool!
[laughing]
[Ihaka:] And she's good!
[Evy:] And speaking of… then do you have a dream to collaborate with someone? Let's just try to maybe divulge heroes... and he'll reach out to you.
[Ihaka:] I've always wanted to collab with Jordan Rakei. He's... Jordan Rakei is probably my main inspiration. Or FKJ. French Kiwi Juice. He's a producer and multi-instrumentalist.
[Webster:] Cool name!
[Evy:] Yeah!
[Ihaka:] Yeah, he's really cool. Yeah, those two would probably be my outstanding... like, if that collab came in, I would ditch quite a lot just to get that one track down.
[Evy:] Well, let's hope that's going to happen.
[Ihaka:] Yeah!
[Evy:] I feel like we could talk forever, but at this point we have to wrap up.
[Webster:] Yes. And for anyone who's trying to find out anything about you, Ihaka, can you tell our audience where they can find you online?
[Ihaka:] Yeah, sure, I'm on Instagram under Ihaka_NZ, and you can look up my band on Facebook and Instagram, Heavy Faces, or Knars (Facebook, Instagram), I've got two bands at the moment.
[Webster:] Cool, thank you very much. And as usual, guys, you know where to find us, it's www.worduppodcast.com, where you'll be able to find our social media and make suggestions about future guests etc., etc. Thank you very much, goodbye!
[Evy:] Thank you!
[Ihaka:] Word Up!
[Evy:] Bye! Doei!
[Ihaka:] Shout out to Word Up!


Transcript is done by Miruna.